Monday 23 September 2013

More info on What happen to Elijah did he go to God's Heaven?

We have read above, clear scripture that teaches Moses died. The Bible has spoken; and faulty church tradition and fanciful speculation is laid to rest.

However, there is also the church tradition that Elijah never died.

Let's look a minute at it biblically; though; and see if it has just as clear an explanation.  We shouldn't accept that Elijah didn't die, solely based on the popular, handed down traditional account; but rather; search the scriptures to see if it were so.

Here is the 'famous account' of Elijah's experience.

2 Kings 2:9 "And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.  And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.  And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.  And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.  He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him"

What the Bible says of this account:
1) "there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

What the Bible doesn't say of this account:
1) 'into heaven' means the third heaven, where the throne of God resides, (as opposed to the 'heaven' where the birds fiy; or the 'heaven' where the planets spin)
2) Elijah was glorified and changed from mortal to immortal, and from corruptible to incorruptible
3) Elijah remained in Heaven forevermore
4) Elijah died

Since the bible doesn't say any of those things that popular traditions presents; we must use scripture to build the biblical case of where Elijah went; and what his circumstances were afterward.

Non-Traditional Hypothesis, based on Biblical evidence; not tradition:  God merely transported Elijah into the air, the 'heavens of the birds' and later deposited him elsewhere, so that Elisha would assume Elijah's responsibilities; and come out from under his shadow.  Eventually, Elijah died; just as we all do.

Biblical Evidence #1:

Examining Elijah's trip up into heaven in 2 Kings chapter two; we find it recorded below; as well as a very important historical marker listed as well:

2 Kings 2:11 "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.  And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.  He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan; And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.  And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.  And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.  And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.  And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho,) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not?  And the men of the city said unto Elisha, Behold, I pray thee, the situation of this city is pleasant, as my lord seeth: but the water is naught, and the ground barren.  And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt therein. And they brought it to him.  And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith the LORD, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barren land.  So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.  And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.  And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.  And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.  Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned twelve years."


Now remember from above, Jehoshaphat was yet alive when Elijah was taken up.  Notice below; in 2Chr 21:1the account of Jehoram, Please note this is a different Jehoram  from the Kings of Israel but the son of Jehoshaphat King of Judah who began to reign as describe in 2 Chronicles 21; we find that 'Elijah' is still alive; and writes a letter to him; who wasn't even reigning at the time of Elijah's was taken up with a whirl wind.

2 Chronicles 21:1 "Now Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.  And he had brethren the sons of Jehoshaphat, Azariah, and Jehiel, and Zechariah, and Azariah, and Michael, and Shephatiah: all these were the sons of Jehoshaphat king of Israel.  And their father gave them great gifts of silver, and of gold, and of precious things, with fenced cities in Judah: but the kingdom gave he to Jehoram; because he was the firstborn.  Now when Jehoram was risen up to the kingdom of his father, he strengthened himself, and slew all his brethren with the sword, and divers also of the princes of Israel.  Jehoram was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem.  And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, like as did the house of Ahab: for he had the daughter of Ahab to wife: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD.  Howbeit the LORD would not destroy the house of David, because of the covenant that he had made with David, and as he promised to give a light to him and to his sons for ever.  In his days the Edomites revolted from under the dominion of Judah, and made themselves a king.  Then Jehoram went forth with his princes, and all his chariots with him: and he rose up by night, and smote the Edomites which compassed him in, and the captains of the chariots.  So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the LORD God of his fathers.  Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.  And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, "Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah, But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself: Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day."  Moreover the LORD stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines, and of the Arabians, that were near the Ethiopians: And they came up into Judah, and brake into it, and carried away all the substance that was found in the king's house, and his sons also, and his wives; so that there was never a son left him, save Jehoahaz, the youngest of his sons.  And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.  And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his bowels fell out by reason of his sickness: so he died of sore diseases. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning of his fathers.  Thirty and two years old was he when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem eight years, and departed without being desired."

Elijah went up with a whirl wind intoHeaven during the reign of Jehosophat; and 13 years after Jehosophat died; when his son Jehoram was reigning; Jehoram receives a letter of warning and curse upon himself for idolatry from Elijah.

Therefore, Scripture shows, Elijah didn't die when he was taken up into heaven in 2 Kings 2; only relocated to another place; so that Elisha's ministry could commence.

Biblical Evidence #2:
2 Kings 2:15 "And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.  And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master (Elijah): lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.  And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.  And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho,) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not? "

The 50 servants did not believe Elijah had been taken up into the 3rd heaven, but rather, they believed the Lord had taken Elijah to a mountain or valley; out of their sight.  Even though the searched and didn't find him, we see their expectation was not as popular tradition presents....neither should ours.


Biblical Evidence #3:
Matthew 17:3, 8 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him. ...And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.  And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."

Some claim that Moses and Elijah appeared before Peter in resurrected, glorified bodies from heaven; but Jesus Himself tells us that they only saw a vision; not resurrected flesh or translated flesh or any type of tangible body resurrected or translation from heaven.


Biblical Evidence #4:
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

Elijah was appointed to die.

Biblical Evidence #5:
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
This cannot mean the 'heavens of the birds' for man has ascended there. (Evel Kneivel)
This cannot mean the 'heavens of the planets' for man has ascended there. (Neil Armstrong)
This can only mean, the 'heavens of God' for Christ alone, per this verse, (Christ alone)....and not Elijah.

Biblical Evidence #6:
I Corinthians 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

Christ, not Elijah, is the firstfruits risen from the dead.

Biblical Evidence #7:
Elijah and Enoch and Moses; none ascended into heaven prior to Jesus per John 3:13, and none of them were the firstborn of the resurrection ahead of Jesus.

The writer of Hebrews comments on their deaths specifically.....

Speaking of Enoch, Moses, and all the prophets (including Elijah) we find:

Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith having not received the promise

Hebrews  11 32-40
And what shall I more say ? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again : and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword : they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins ; being destitute, afflicted, tormented ; 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect

Biblical Evidence #8:
15:22 "For as in Adam all die

Rom5:12-14, Heb 9:27, Job 30:23, Ecc7:2,  Ecc12:7, Ecc8:9, Job34:15, Psa39.5, 1Pet1:24-25, Psa109:5, Job8:9, Isa40:6-8, Gen2:16-17, Genesis 3, Num 16:29, Psa89:47-48, 2Sam14:14, 1 Cor 15:20-23, Job34:15, Ecc 2:14, Psa 90:3, Psa 39:5, Isaiah 40:6-8

(At the Resurrection / Rapture of the Dead and Living in Christ things will Change 1 Tess4, 1Cor15:50-55
Phi3:20-21

Because of Adam's sin and fall, all men die.  Point blank.  End of discussion.

Biblical Evidence #9:
I Timothy 6:16 Jesus Christ "only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Again, No mortal, Elijah, Enoch, Moses, or otherwise save Christ; has ascended into the 3rd Heaven.



Evidence 10
    

Col 1:6-18

6 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist . 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the pre-eminence

Evidence 11

Rev 1



And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead,(none other before him) and the prince of the kings of the

earth (AMEN)


Evidence 12
St John 8

Jesus explained to the Jews if a man kept his saying's he will never see death and the Jews blasphemed accusing  Christ of having a Devil. 1) The Jews believe all men died and not even Christ could convince the Jews that some OT saints didn't die, also this was the death Paul was writing about in Hebrews 11:5 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead ? and the prophets are dead : whom makest thou thyself?    Note the Jews understanding is not that any Prophet had gone to heaven but that they were all dead!  and Christ did not oppose there understanding.
  
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? 49 Jesus answered , I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. 50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth . 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead , and the prophets; and thou sayest , If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead ? and the prophets are dead : whom makest thou thyself? 54 Jesus answered , If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say , that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say , I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad . 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was , I am . 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself , and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by



Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.Hebrews 9

Please note how Paul writing to the Hebrew brethren explained that the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image could never with those sacrifices made the comers there onto perfect . So with those old testament sacrifice's their sin was NOT totally purged.

It would violate the scriptures to allow unatoned for men to enter the most Holy Place Heaven.

Hebrews 10 kjv

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
         
So the traditional view that Elijah never died, and ascended up into Heaven several hundred years before Christ is biblically unfounded and untenable.

 
             


 


 

 


 

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